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A personal observation on Gun Free zones


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#1 Alan

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Posted 01 December 2017 - 06:06 AM

In the state of New Mexico, businesses can prohibit firearms on their premises, concealed permit notwithstanding. They're required to erect signage of a minimum size stating the business is a gun-free zone. For the most part, all hospitals, churches, movies houses, clinics, Walmarts, Targets, grocery stores, and most small businesses are posted as gun-free. Great! But if I were a terrorist, guess where I'd go to shoot a few citizens?

 

By law, any establishment which serves liquor, and all schools, must be a gun-free zone, replete with state-issued signage. Only problem is, the signage is much smaller in physical size than the required ones mentioned above! But this leads to an interesting question. If a business (or school district) can opt in to a gun-free zone, why can't a business (or school) opt out? 



#2 mongochicago

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Posted 01 December 2017 - 07:35 AM

   Business can opt out -  but schools and liquor selling businesses can't because by law they must be a gun free zone.



#3 Red

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Posted 01 December 2017 - 09:38 AM

I see these signs. Sometimes I pretend I don't. When I go to a movie like once per year, I carry my gun. I figure no one will know it's there unless it's needed. In which case I'll deal with any legal aspect after saving my life. I see the signs at some restaurants also. I'll say "hmm I must have missed that sign" after the bad guy is dead. Grocery stores sell liquor but it's not their main income so don't fall under that law here. And I never go to school. Paw never put no stock in fancy book lernin.

 

One bad thing here, the St. Louis Cardinal baseball stadium does not allow concealed carry. They have metal detectors. So folks leave their guns in their cars. Then thugs have been breaking into those cars and stealing the guns because they know the good folks can't carry in. One guy was shot after the game while walking back to his car where his gun was. Paralyzed for life for following the rules. http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2016/12/15/man-accused-of-shooting-after-cardinals-game-holds-off-on-plea/ and there have been others.


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#4 Old Hickory

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Posted 02 December 2017 - 01:38 AM

I always carry on and off duty unless I enter a courthouse, etc. I would avoid that St. Louis ballpark. No loss for me because I am not a sports fan.

 

A few businesses here have stupid gun free zone signs I ignore. Having an old constantly painful gunshot wound that will bother me for the rest of my life is reason enough, I am reminded. 

 

I also suggest your concealed carry weapons be of large enough caliber with proper self defense loads to stop someone or something. 



#5 Alan

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Posted 02 December 2017 - 04:07 AM

I don't know what others use for ammo, but I use frangible copper ammo (9 mm). When they hit even soft tissue, they unglue, literally! Shoot a ballistic gel block, and all you get is a three inch deep hole about the size of your fist. 


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#6 Rudy

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Posted 02 December 2017 - 07:49 AM

My neighbor and I went out last weekend to shoot our hand guns. He had a new small hammerless 9mm for conceal carry to try out. He is an excellent shot with his full size M&P40 but he couldn't hit a thing with the smaller 9mm. And the recoil was rather harsh so follow up shots were more difficult to line up. So my question to him was, wouldn't you be better off defending yourself with something you shoot well? Maybe finding a way to conceal-carry a larger hand gun is more practical.

 

What do you fellas use for conceal carry? How do you carry the weapon?

 

I'm getting my CC permit in January so I want to start planning.


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#7 MikeNC

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Posted 02 December 2017 - 08:49 AM

 So my question to him was, wouldn't you be better off defending yourself with something you shoot well? Maybe finding a way to conceal-carry a larger hand gun is more practical. What do you fellas use for conceal carry? How do you carry the weapon? I'm getting my CC permit in January so I want to start planning.

Excellent question Rudy. I was lucky to have the CC instructor I had. Among other things, one of his first topics was choosing what gun is right for you. Bottom line was to choose a weapon you are highly familiar and comfortable with and hopefully already a good marksman with such weapon. Size was completely secondary. He stressed caliber was important in order to do the job well, even if your shot was just a bit off placement. Just a bit being the operative phrase. Once you have all that squared away in your head....you can then figure out a way to conceal most any handgun. And he went about demonstrating how full size 1911's can be concealed and that is what he carried. You could not see any imprint of his weapon no matter how he stood, stooped, etc

 

After some consideration I chose a Glock #21 being a full size .45 caliber. I at first used a Bianchi paddle holder on the side and it is excellent when wearing a light jacket or oversize shirt. I then became aware of the clip draw system designed for Glock handguns. I can wear shorts and a normal size T-shirt in the hottest of NC summer weather and you will not know I am carrying a full size semi auto from in front, to my side or from behind me. The gun is carried inside the small of my back and is very comfortable and secure with the spring steel clip draw. In my opinion, clip draw has eliminated the need for a holster when carrying a Glock in hot climates. During colder weather when wearing heavier clothing I sometimes go back to carrying it on my side in the Bianchi holster. Good luck with your decision.


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#8 mongochicago

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Posted 02 December 2017 - 02:37 PM

   I currently carry a  Ruger 1911.  Decades ago I carried a Ruger Redhawk 44 mag that i had cut to a 4"bbl.  But then I am a bit large.


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#9 Old Hickory

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 01:15 AM

I carry an old but trusty Colt Diamondback in a leather pancake holster. I also carry it in my leather WWII tanker type holster. 

 

Most Importantly, whatever you carry, you must be able to shoot it accurately and be very familiar with your sidearm. If the weapon doesn't fit your hand, you will certainly have accuracy problems.

 

I'm positive everyone here knows and has always practiced gun safety. it is fortunate CCW classes also includes gun safety for first time CCW folks.

 

Another tip, practice shooting with left and right hands, as you could get wounded and have to rely upon your off hand. Make no mistake, it happens. At work, we qualify regularly shooting left and right handed, both. Our total score reflects if we still have a job. Part of our pistol qualification shoot is marked off at 35 meters distance to the target while shooting left and right handed. The hand guns we use and carry are Army issued M9 9mm. 

 

P.S. Most of us very much dislike the M9.


Edited by Old Hickory, 05 December 2017 - 12:48 AM.

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#10 Rudy

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Posted 04 December 2017 - 09:01 AM

Thanks for all the advice. I like my M&P40 with a ported barrel. I currently use a Safariland GLS holster with a paddle when target practicing and out in the woods. Shooting with both hands sounds like really good advice. It should be fun to try next time I'm out.


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#11 Alan

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Posted 04 December 2017 - 10:12 AM

I think too many people think bigger is better, when sometimes accuracy is. A good example is a .22 LR automatic. Models are available with as many as 33 rounds! 22WMR are also on the market. All of them offer less recoil, and quicker back on target. 


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#12 mongochicago

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Posted 04 December 2017 - 10:26 AM

  Jack Manfre, R.I.P.  while teaching a recruit class came up with the best answer when asked about officers who carry big bore guns.  He responded with "There hasn't been a gun invented yet, that is too big, too powerful or too heavy for me to defend my life with".


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#13 Old Hickory

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 12:03 AM

I think too many people think bigger is better, when sometimes accuracy is. A good example is a .22 LR automatic. Models are available with as many as 33 rounds! 22WMR are also on the market. All of them offer less recoil, and quicker back on target. 

Some people carry a wimpy .25 auto which in next to worthless. A .22 is much more lethal.


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#14 AZZA

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Posted 08 December 2017 - 12:17 AM

[/quote]
Some people carry a wimpy .25 auto which in next to worthless. A .22 is much more lethal.[/quote]
Agreed, just looked at my Lee reloading manual, a .22lr 40 grain HP has 480fps more velocity than the 50 grain .25 ACP.
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#15 Alan

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Posted 08 December 2017 - 05:01 AM

A .25 ACP is almost a toy gun. Even a simple Navy peacoat will stop the projectile leaving only a bruise. 


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