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I Need Opinions From CA Folks on Lead Free Testing and Results


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#1 Eric Mayer

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Posted 01 March 2016 - 02:45 PM

I am ready to start publishing more lead free ammunition testing results, but I want to get some feedback from the California folks on how I should layout the results.

 

My initial thoughts include the following:

 

1)  Firearms used (trying to include more than one).

2)  Ammunition Information (caliber, brand, bullet type).

3)  Accuracy/Range reports (high and low averages of #5, three-shot groups) at either 75, or 100 yards, depending on the ammunition tested.

4)  Bullet performance on varmints (close-up pictures, and possibly some video).

5)  Final thoughts on the ammunition, including current accessibility in the market.

 

Things I do not want to include:

 

1)  I don't want to do ammo comparisons (ie: Hornady vs. Winchester 17HMR - 15.5 grain NTX).  I believe that this information is dependent on the individual rifle that is being used to shoot the ammunition.

2)  I don't want to include too much opinion.  I would like the published results to be enough.

3)  A cluster of various articles that are different in content.  I would like the content to match across the board.

 

Please let me know your thoughts!

 

Thanks!

 

Eric  B)


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#2 dangerranger

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Posted 05 March 2016 - 07:38 PM

 My own experience with lead free ammo testing is that it varied a lot from gun to gun. You might add the rate of twist to the guns stats and test on as many guns as possible. I know you probably can't get that technical but I have found through slugging some of my barrels that the tighter barrels shot lead free better. Good luck with this DR



#3 Eric Mayer

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Posted 06 March 2016 - 08:30 PM

I didn't think about the twist rate.  It is too important to not include!  Thanks for the reminder!

 

Eric  B)


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#4 lunarlithic

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Posted 07 March 2016 - 02:43 PM

The most apparent difference was loss of velocity in the lead free ammo I've shot. This loss of velocity/energy has resulted in less than stellar performance on the receiving end. With shotguns we have an expensive yet effective alternative as opposed to tin in the rimfire field.

Best solution just keep moving away from no lead areas while warning the uninformed of the problem and the treasonous behavior of the CA government.

 

Sean


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#5 dangerranger

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Posted 08 March 2016 - 01:30 AM

I don't know if this is helpful or not but I have found that CCI TNT and the lead free TNT Green have POI's that are so close that I don't even rezero when changing ammo. The lead is 17 grain and the lead free is just over 16 grain. Squirrels can't tell the difference! This is out of my marlin with a heavy Green Mountain Barrel. When I found this out I bought a case of each.

 

 I'm glad you are doing this. DR


Edited by dangerranger, 08 March 2016 - 01:33 AM.

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#6 dangerranger

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Posted 08 March 2016 - 01:40 AM

The most apparent difference was loss of velocity in the lead free ammo I've shot. This loss of velocity/energy has resulted in less than stellar performance on the receiving end. With shotguns we have an expensive yet effective alternative as opposed to tin in the rimfire field.

Best solution just keep moving away from no lead areas while warning the uninformed of the problem and the treasonous behavior of the CA government.

 

Sean

 

 

I have not had to use much lead free shot, but rifle bullets seem to gain velocity quickly! My problem has been getting the long for their caliber bullets to stabilize. And finding any selection of lead free to test. I have been looking for a good bullet in 6.5 cal. DR



#7 lunarlithic

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Posted 08 March 2016 - 09:21 PM

DR.,  Bergers in 140 gr. work well in my 6.5x55 and 264. Have not been as pleased with the lighter weights. Acubonds noted in Nosler Trophy Grade ammo is outstanding, but I'm talking about 5 Elk in three years but would not hesitate to use them for critters in a pinch.

 

Sean



#8 Varmint Shooter

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Posted 27 March 2016 - 06:02 AM

Been using the Hornady NTX in both 20 and 22 cals. Quite happy with the performance and accuracy.

Ordered some . 204s from Leigh to compare to the 24gr. NTX, same load. At 100 yards dead squirrel,

past that, squirrels just :tonguecamo: Will have to do some load development to really see how the Leigh bullets

will perform.



#9 Alan

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 05:25 AM

Since my current interest is airguns, allow me to comment in that respect. 

 

I have had poor results from every non-lead pellet I have tried. Those include calibers .177, .22, .25. and 9 mm (.357). None of them group well. In defense of them, I must say most have been a combination of some nondescript metal, and plastic. All metal ones are a bit rare, and rather expensive. The question is why, and what follows is part of the issue.

 

The current main thrust in air rifle ammunition is a bismuth and tin alloy, typically 88%-12% respectively. This is the same alloy used for fishing sinkers. Unfortunately, bismuth and tin cost several times more than lead. Worse, China is the world's largest producer averaging 7,600 metric tons per year, or nearly 90% of the world's production! And tin? It's mostly produced in the far east too, although most US bound supplies come from Peru. One can draw his/her own conclusions based on the supply chain, but the political implications should be obvious.

 

And there is another issue, which is probably of more interest to air gunners as pellets don't use jackets like powder burner bullets do. And that is bismuth's crystalline structure. It fractures rather easily even when alloyed, and when it does the resulting shards are as abrasive as sandpaper. Thus airguns like the 392 and 397 Benjamin pumpers, which have brass barrels, means shooting bismuth alloys could spell disaster with the rifling.

 

Lastly, having the experience I have had with powder burners, I believe that bullet design will have to be reengineered from the ground up. Imagine a high-powered, fast moving bullet hitting a big game rib? What happens when the bismuth fractures?  


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#10 poacherjoe

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Posted 04 November 2016 - 05:51 PM

Well I shot the varmint grenades in 223 and they were very accurate but did not supply me with the graphic results that my sick mind requires! They just punch a hole through the squirrel and it crawls away and dies. I had been fortunate to live in the sierra foothills and the squirrels were plentiful on the dry range cattle ground where lead can still be used. But they have developed a new variety of almond that can sustain itself in this marginal ground with fertigation so invester's have ripped all this ground up for almond trees and eliminating my hunting grounds. Now I will have to plan a trip to southern Oregon in the spring and shoot sage rats and rock chucks with my remaining lead tips. On the non lead note I am currently in the process of developing a load in 25-06 . When I get the results I will post them for all to see.


Edited by poacherjoe, 04 November 2016 - 05:53 PM.

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#11 gunman5646

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Posted 10 November 2016 - 10:07 AM

   So far, all my experience with non-lead has been with Barnes and Hornady in .277, ,284, and .308. The .270 Win using the 130 gr. Barnes TSX works well, the .280 rem doesn't like the 168 gr. version. I suspect rate of twist is the culprit.



#12 Fat Albert

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Posted 08 March 2017 - 12:13 PM

To start off here is the best Twist Rate Cal. that I have found.   http://mcgowenbarrel.com/twist2/ Thank to Comrade Jerry (aka Gov Moon beam) I am working on LF bullets  for my 1/9.25" 243 Win and a 1/12" 6TCU rifle.  The 6TCU(6/223 40deg.)  is the real problem.  Its a small case with a 1/12" twist with a 20" barrel.  Short of buying GScustom bullets ($1+ each) the only bullet that might work is the Nosler LF55gr. BT but it is still too long (0.95") but if the the plastic tip are cut off should work at 0.820".  The last thing that a LF bullet needs is a plastic tip and a boat tail. Bullet makers marketing dept. are designing bullets not the tech dept. It is a truism that if Barnes-Nosler-Hornady ever sold baseballs that they would come with plastic tips and a boattail.  I am going out tomorrow to try the cut off 55s in the TCU @ a 100yds.  The Twist Rate cal  said that I need over 2835fps and the load should go near 3000fps. I will check with my crono. and get back with new post.  



#13 Fat Albert

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 10:38 AM

Update to my post of March 8.  I shot the 55gr 6mm Nosler LF BT's in my 6TCU (1/12") at 3280fps and the full length (.960") and cut nose (.800") bullets made .243" holes in paper @ 50 and 100yds. BUT!  the cut nose bullets made groups half the size of the full length bullets. The seating depth that I used was too long to fit in magazine (2.90" max) so I am going to load back down with with the cutnose at 2.90" and work back up with  the new seating depth and will start about 3100fps and see what I get.



#14 Fat Albert

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 03:06 PM

Beware of brain farts!  My magazine is 2.290 not 2.90" Old Win 70 short action 223.



#15 AZZA

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 11:10 PM

   So far, all my experience with non-lead has been with Barnes and Hornady in .277, ,284, and .308. The .270 Win using the 130 gr. Barnes TSX works well, the .280 rem doesn't like the 168 gr. version. I suspect rate of twist is the culprit.

Yep those guilding brass projectiles tend to be long for weight. I've found using 120 grain 7mm projectiles Barnes XTP's in place of 140-160 grain jacketed projectiles. 😀
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