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.204 vs .22-250


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#1 Straightshot

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 09:15 PM

hey guys I am very new to the forum and wanted to post my first real question. I have been looking at the two different calibers in the title lately and have been wondering what the real big differences of the rounds are. i am looking to get a new, strictly coyote rig, and was wondering which caliber would work the best? i am not too interested in shots farther than 300 yards really, i like to call them in a lot closer then that. also which caliber is more flatter shooting.

The rifles i was looking at were the savage model 12 FCV with the accu trigger and the thompson centerfire venture

Do any of you guys have any experience with these rifles ? good /bad reviews. are they accurate? do they shoot accurately after putting a few shots down range ? or do they throw lead ?

any help would be great

Thanks Josh

oh p.s im sorry if there is already another topic similar to mine
"I am willing to hunt hard from sunrise to sunset, sometimes in weather conditions that would make a yeti stay at home. Over the years i've had days when success came early, late or not at all. But one thing i want to pass along is persistence No matter how frustrating it gets, stay in the game. Because sooner or later , the planets will align, the wind will be perfect your shot will be true and the hunting gods will smile at you when you have successfully taken the most cunning animal in North America". quote by Taro Sakita

This quote inspired me thought i would share it.

#2 Old Hawkeye

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 05:46 AM

The 22-250 is "the" standard to which all 22 centerfires are measured. It is accurate, has good case life (for reloading), has a wide array of bullet types & weights to choose from, & will easily take a coyote to 400 yards if the shooter does his part.
The 204 Ruger is a recent entry that shoots 4000+ fps, but with lighter bullets. Bullet choices are limited (I think only two weights are readily available), requires different cleaning rod, jag, etc. & has less energy @ 400 yards than the 22-250, so clean kills at that distance could be more questionable. It is popular with the 20 cal crowd, but personally I don't see where it fills a useful niche other cartridges don't already fill. The difference in trajectory is inconsequential at the ranges mentioned.
As both these rounds are high intensity, high velocity they will foul the barrel fairly quickly & show some accuracy loss after about twenty rounds or so,(sometimes less) depending on your barrel quality. My experience is the 204 will foul quicker & is harder to clean.
Both are also very damaging to the pelt because of the high velocity & very explosive bullets used. Coyotes shot at under 150 yards will have grapefruit size holes in them & the pelt will be ruined. If your shots are 300 yards and under & you have concerns about pelt damage you can load them to a lower velocity & use the harder less explosive match type bullets or get a 223 Rem or 221 Fireball. If pelt damage is not a concern, I would go with the 22-250, as I think it is more versatile & will allow more range if needed. At under 300 yards my 221 Fireball is very deadly with minimal pelt damage, almost no recoil, & a lot less muzzle blast. It's my go to call in gun.

#3 Red

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 06:07 AM

I disagree on several levels. The 204 does not foul more quickly as I've used both extensively in prairie dog towns and have not noticed that. The 204 with 39-40 grain bullets have a higher BC than typical 55 grain bullets used in the 250, so at longer distances (500yards or so), it actually eclipses the 22-250 in trajectory and energy. At 300 yards or less the 22-250 has more energy that IMO is unneeded as the 204 has plenty to kill coyotes at these ranges. The 204 has significantly less recoil and muzzle blast. Generally the 22-250 would want 40-45-50,or 55 grain bullets. Any of these are fine for coyotes to 300 yards. The 204 offers 32-35-39 or 40 grain bullets for typical 1-12 twist rifles. However, 35g to 39g are better suited for coyotes IMO, though I've used them all with success. I think Berger might make a 30grainer too?

I've owned and used both for coyotes and was a dedicated 22-250 guy. I now own none but have three 204's. I personally like the 204 better for the reasons stated.

Hey ISLAM - Come On The Peace Train!! - or be wiped out.


#4 Old Hawkeye

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 08:52 AM

Guess I was a little hard on the 204 & hope I didn't offend the 204 fans out there cause it is a pretty cool round. If you handload the bullet choices are broader, but factory ammo is still pretty limited. The fouling thing was based on the only two I have been around &, like I said, can vary depending on your barrel. Following is a comparison of a 20 cal, 33 grain V-Max & a 22 cal 55 grain V-Max:

20 cal, 33 gr. V-Max @ 4100 fps muzzle velocity, 200 yard zero: At 400 yards, energy = 290 ft/lb, bullet drop 15.6"

22 cal, 55 gr. V-Max @ 3800 fps muzzle velocity, 200 yard zero: At 400 yards, energy = 627 ft/lb, bullet drop 14.7"

Source: Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading. Vol. 2, Ballistics Tables.

At 500 yards the disparity is even greater in favor of the 22-250. With an energy level advantage of 468 to 189 & a bullet drop of 31.4" to 35.3" The old rule of ballistics applies, velocity erodes, but mass doesn't!
Don't have much data for velocities for the other bullets in the 204, so it's velocity & energy levels may be able to be improved slightly from what I've shown here, but regardless, the 22-250 is the superior cartridge @ ranges of 400 yards & beyond. At shorter ranges the differences in trajectory between them is measured in tenths of inches (irrelevant) & the energy level of a 204 @ 200 yards is what a 22-250 still has at 400 yards. This is why I think the 204 is questionable for 400 yard coyotes. All this being said, they are both great rounds & will serve the user well.

#5 sixshooter

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 09:03 AM

This may not be much help but if you do not reload I would go with the 223. Ammo is much cheaper and really no less effctive out to 300 yards. I knew a guy that had a ruger mini 14 and he could pound jack rabbits with open sights out past 300 so its pretty accurate. I do have a 22-250 and have killed several deer with it. Hit in the neck it was an immediate dirt nap for them with a 55gr soft point bullet. so it is very capable of taking coyotes out past 300. I am now reloading for it as ammo is around a buck a round you can get 223 for $5.99 a box :biggrincamo:

#6 opie323

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 09:29 AM

I am just getting into predator hunting seeing as the population of yotes in Michigan has gone skyrocketing, but a friend of mine uses nothing but an average Savage American model 14 chambered in 223. On his 150 acre farm he has shot and killed numerous coyotes at out to 500yds, his current record shot is (504yds). I think for the price of ammo, availability, reloadablity, and barrelware the 223 is a good round to use. Also if you wish at a later time, you could always turn the gun into a wildcat here is a list of wildcats based of the 223

17 Rem. Fireball/MachIV
- Berger HP 30 grs over 15.7 Alliant Reloader 7 this produces and average velocity of 3500fps with about 800ft-lbs
17 Remington
- The 17Rem causes almost no damage to the pelt when using 25gr v-maxs, or 25gr hollow point match bullets by horned.
19 Calhoun
- using 27 to 32gr by calhoun you get between 3500fps and 3200fps
19-223
- this will produce a 32gr calhoun at about 4000fps
20 Tactical
- This can be loaded with everything from 32grn to 55grn bullets and will produce anywhere from 4000fps to 3500fps depending on bullet weight
204 Ruger
- You guys covered this already
221 Fireball
- Hawkeye you covered this also
222 Remington
- Just about the same thing
222 Rem. Magnum
- The same thing as the 222 just a little faster
6-223
-the 6-223 or often called the 6x45 is a necked up 223 round to 6mm or .243 this is a better ballistics round that the 223 due to the increased velocity, and weight of bullets if you want Hawkeye will tell you all about this round. He is the one that introduced me to it; I am currently working building a rifle in this caliber.

Hope this helps, I think there should be no reason that you limit yourself to two rounds look at the world of wildcats it is awesome.

-Opie

#7 fredhorace77

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 12:27 PM

personally id go with the 22-250...for so many reasons i dont have enough room to state all of them...i have owned both calibers and find the 22-250 is better suited...as far as the type of gun ive owned both models and makes that you mentioned and i think both are awesome guns...personaly id pick both...lol

#8 ridenemwild

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 02:31 PM

I have a 204 and shoot the 32 gr factory vmax's. The advantages of the 204 are longer barrel life, less recoil, and no pelt damage (have shot alot of yotes at diffrent ranges and no exit hole), yes with the 22-250 you can shoot larger bullets with more energy at 500 yards but I still say the 204 is plenty of gun. The only real advantage I see of buying the 22-250 is that it is legal to shoot deer with ( atleast in Georgia). I think you should deffinately consider a 223 though. The great thing about the 223 is ammo is CHEAP!! The 204 and the 22-250 are going to cost around $20 for 20. the 223 is going to cost about $8 for 20. If I had to purchase my own bullets (one of the great perks of my job!) I would probly own a 223 instead of a 204. And you can get heavier bullets for it as well if you want to shoot a deer.

#9 Old Hawkeye

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 04:53 PM

Great thread!!! Just goes to show you how personal preferences shade all of our opinions. The fact is a 17 Rem, 221 Fireball, 222 Rem, 223 Rem, 204 Ruger, 22-250 or even a 220 Swift will do what Straightshot wants to accomplish. There is no one answer, but rather what will work for the intended use. That's why we all have more than ONE rifle!! Which is the fun part of it!! What's great about it is there are so many guys out there that are willing to share their knowledge & opinions to guys just starting out or looking for advice & continue supporting our sport. Let's here back from you Straightshot. What do you think?

Edited by Old Hawkeye, 09 February 2012 - 04:55 PM.


#10 Red

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 06:14 PM

Hawkeye, your figures are correct when the 32/33 grain bullet is used in the 204. Run a calculation with a 39 grain Blitz King @ 3800fps+. I think you'll be amazed as I was. It passes up the 22-250 somewhere around 500 yards if I recall correctly.

I used the 32's for one season for coyotes. I lost none and some were absulutely destroyed, but it's not the best bullet IMO. Particularly for long range application such as prairie dogs, the light 20 cal bullets cannot hold a candle to the 39's or 40s. The difference is night and day.

I'm in no way nocking the 22-250. It's a fine caliber that is idealy suited for coyotes. I enjoy the fact that I can kill them just as dead with lighter recoil and muzzle blast of the 204 is all. And, as stated above, the plain old fashioned 223 has been responsible for many many dead coyotes too and I had not considered the fact that hand loading may not be on the table.

edit, just ran a calc, my mistake, the 204 beats the 250 in trajectory from the get go, but does not catch up to it energy wise until around 600 yards. So, it's probably moot as those distances are not typical coyote calling ranges. Under 300 the 22-250 certainly has it beat for energy.

Edited by Red, 09 February 2012 - 06:34 PM.

Hey ISLAM - Come On The Peace Train!! - or be wiped out.


#11 toby

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 07:21 PM

The 204 continues to get great reviews, I personally think it's a terrific Varmint round. It's another great alternative to the never ending desires of a new Rifle.

#12 fredhorace77

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 07:29 PM

i did notice that the thompson venture shows the .204 as having a rate of twist as 1:10 verses the savage 1:12..i think id pick the thompson cause u can reload an even heavier bullet for the .204 than what factory ammo offers. plus if you only plan on shooting 300-400yrds the extra barrel length and weight of the savage will not be any advantage..looks to me the thompson will serve you well

#13 sixshooter

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 07:56 PM

Lets hear some more tech. info does anyone know about the parent cases. The differences in pressures ect.

Edited by sixshooter, 09 February 2012 - 07:57 PM.


#14 sixshooter

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 08:01 PM

Lets hear some more tech. info does anyone know about the parent cases. The differences in pressures ect.

because i think i want to neck down the 204 and run some trail boss thru it :whatthecamo: :biggrincamo:

#15 sixshooter

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 08:09 PM


Lets hear some more tech. info does anyone know about the parent cases. The differences in pressures ect.

because i think i want to neck down the 204 and run some trail boss thru it :whatthecamo: :biggrincamo:

Seriously just kidding. But this is a good thread. and great discussion. lets find some more info and post. This is good reading :biggrincamo: