Hi Everyone, I have heard alot of conflicting stories about bargain bullets so I decided to do a test on them. I got my hands on some Midsouth Varmint Nightmere Extreme 50g bullets and had to decide what I was going to load them in. I was pondering this choice for a few days and decided to go with the .221 fireball because I thought that if I didn't blow them out of something like a 22-250 Ackley at stupid speeds they might stand a chance.
I started with new RP brass and trimmed to length, turned the necks for concentricity, deburred the flash holes and squared up the primer pockets. I usually use H322 powder for the fireball but decided to go with Little Gun because I have had great success with it in the Hornet and the K Hornet using pistol primers in the hornets. I was going to use rifle primers in the fireball and decided to go with Federal GM205M primers.
The rifle I am using for the test I think is overkill for a fireball but that just takes out another variable. The rifle used is (was) a Savage LRPV but all that is left of it is a trued up action. The barrel is a Krieger #17 HV with a 14 twist. It has a Nightforce NXS 12-42X56 scope on it with a 20 MOA Badger base and Badger rings. It has a RB trigger in it set for 6oz's and it weighs 15.5 pounds with the fireball barrel on it.
Making the ammo I made 2 batches, 1 batch at stock OAL and 1 batch .004 off the lands and in testing it made absolutely no difference. I put a slight crimp on the cases with a Lee factory crimp die for the hornet because they don't make one for the fireball. I did this to keep neck tension as uniform as possible and weed out that variable, I also weight sorted the brass. I used a Redding BR powder measure to dispense the powder and weight sorted the finished rounds again in another group of weight sorted brass. Yeah, I know I must be nuts to go through all this work for some bargain bullets but I just had to know what they could do never having used them before except for spraying out of a 16 and hearing conflicting stories.
Off to the range I go and batting 1000. It's raining out so I don't want to put my chronograph out to get soaked and RUINT! LOL. Upon setting up I realized I had the wrong top on the Sinclair rest and the other one was not in my truck so I decided to use a bipod instead of bags. I did have my Bald Eagle rear bag so that's ok. Here are the results at 100 yds.

1st group .336
2nd group 1.200
3rd group .361
4th group .497
5th group .130 (yes that's .130 )
6th group .658
7th group .473
8th group .885
.542 average group size (Not bad but I wouldn't shoot a match with them)


Results at 200 yards

1st group 1.676
2nd group 2.584
3rd group 1.097
4th group .929
5th group 1.753
1.581 average group size (Still minute of Chuck or possibly PD at 200 yards)

My consensus is they can shoot but the consistency of them needs some to be desired, I guess that's why they are Bargain bullets. Part 2 of this test will be with the 55 grain bargain bullets in the 22BR.
Thanks for reading and have a great day. AL
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Well, that's WAY BETTER luck than I had with them . I ended up giving the rest of the box away, I wasn't at all happy with the performance I got.

"My consensus is they can shoot but the consistency of them needs some to be desired"

I found the same thing. I didn't go through near as much prep as you did, but I did prep them the same as I do for other bullets that I have found to be more consistent. Never the less, for Hornet or Fireball prairie dogs at shorter ranges they could save some money.

BTW, that's a fantastic rifle you have! A 15.5lb rifle chambered for 221FB....Cool!

I'm going to say for varmints the accuracy is there. Now a days with the price of bullets the bargins are something to look at.

Thank you Red, the rifle is cool. After all the work I went through the bullets probably aren't a bargain but I just had to know what they are capable of taking out as many variables as possible, hearing all the mixed reviews about them. I will do the test with the 55 grainers in 22BR as soon as I get a chance and post the results. There will be no prep work because i'm using lapua brass that is already prepped for the BR. The rifle was built by one of my favorite people, Larry Racine. The stock was a rough blank done by yours truly. Thank you. AL
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When my buddy built his Howa in Fireball some years ago, he got a Pac-Nor 1.25" diameter barrel put on a .223 Howa he didn't care too much for. It weighed about the same as the big Savage Chuckbuster built. He dropped it into a Boyd's varminter stock and it was a club to carry around, but it didn't move when he was shooting at PDs with it, it was a marvel. It shot virtually everything well, also, but we don't know if that was the barrel or the good job of fitting it up The best groups he shot with it at 200 yards was just under .2", using, IIRC, Hornady SPSX 50s and Re-7 powder. Gads that thing would shoot, even with the horrendous factory trigger. He finally sold it because "it was boring and didn't offer any challenge to shooting it well". I told him he'd regret selling it, and he does..............................Now he's planning to build another Fireball, on guess what? an LRPV action............... just like Chuckbuster's...........

Hi glenn asher, Copycat! No, I am only kidding. I started the project going off half cocked, as far as I am concerned the Savage LRPV action is the Cadillac of junk. What I mean is it is a good rigid action but has it's downfalls as far as I am concerned. First of all you can not get a good trigger in it safely, it took me forever to get it to 6oz's and make it safe after increasing sear angle and going through alot of grief. I am using a 36# striker spring to decrease lock time and that only makes it more difficult to get it light, it needs a real 3 or 4 lever trigger that nobody makes. My fingers are still crossed! The second thing is it's really a short action magnum reciever, sounds good but it's not. The standard action has a barrel shank of 1.055 and the magnum action has a barrel shank of 1.120 which means when you put a standard 1.250 barrel on it, you only have .130 of mating surface on the barrel shoulder to the receiver or recoil lug. I havn't had any problems with this but it just does'nt sit well with me. I have 4 barrels for it, all Krieger HV#17's except for the 22BR which is a straight pipe, weighing in at 18.5 pounds. The rifle is extremely accurate with every caliber but I am used to 1 1/2-2oz triggers. It was a great project but I probably would not build another one, it is what it is. If they made it with a standard barrel shank and put a remington trigger in it, it would be a Binford but they didn't. On the other hand, would I sell it? No, it is a great shooter. I have a Stolle Panda action in 6ppc and the savage is a POS compared to it. My next project will be based around a BAT model B. I apologise if I come across too critical but I like to put it all on the table. I made the savage with the intent that I would be changing bolt heads but instead I bought different bolts so that idea went out the window. On the other hand if you want to build an accurate rifle without spending alot of dough(doh), that you can change bolt heads and are not used to a 2oz trigger then the rifle does shoot extremely well. My problem with it is not the way it shoots, it is the way it feels when you shoot it, if you can figure that one out. Take what I wrote with a grain of salt because it is just my 2 cents, if that. If you have any questions, feel free to PM me and I will be happy to give you a couple more cents. Have a great day. AL

We've both been shooting Savages for quite awhile, and have gotten used to the quirks and foibles of them. In fact, we've gotten pretty fond of them. Yep, they are uglier than necessary, but so am I
Also, neither of us is accustomed to custom-actioned guns, so we don't have that to fight down, either. I own some Winchesters and he's got some Remingtons, and other stuff, but we manage to do pretty well with the Salvages.
I have a Sharpshooter trigger in one of my rifles, it's down to 14 ounces, and is about as light as I want to fool with, along with my two CZ's set triggers. Anything lighter, and I get uncomfortable with it. As an old pistol shooter, I tend to treat the Accutrigger like a DA revolver, and I can shoot them tolerably well that way, too.


I like and appreciate the custom actions, etc., but I can't afford them, so I make do, and I'm not unhappy with them.

x2

GA and Red, Ut abyssus vos narro! (latin for "to hell you say"). Further broken down in english means (your kidding, right!). LOL! You guys are preaching to the choir, I also like Savage rifles and thats why I spent alot of hours and about 5K on this one. I was going to conquer the world with a Savage! I just drove 500 miles to get it and put the .244 Wackley barrel on it because I have a chuck giving me the butterfinger at 539 yds. I will fix his wagon tomorrow. When I bought it and decided to make it the best rifle in the world, it came with a 22-250 barrel that shot bugholes. Upon shooting it the cases looked funny to me, even being old and blind. Further investigation revealed a ridge at the body shoulder juction. Savage had gone too far with the rough reamer which left a ridge on the case. I will edit and post pics tomorrow. Was I going to send it back to Savage? No, we will just take a smidge off it and rechamber. When the barrel was chucked up it spun like a banana, did I spell banana right? It is late and the long drive has beat the bag out of me, also I am using a laptop tethered to a cellphone and I am too tired , lazy to post pics but I will edit and post later. Furthermore I would like to apologise to anyone I may have bummed out, aggravated or plain old PO'd because it is not my intent. I am just giving My 02 on My Savage project, take it with a grain of salt. Here is a pic of the beginning of the end. Have a great day and may God Bless. AL
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PS. GA and Red, you don't have to gang up on me because I might enjoy it.LOL CB

I wasn't criticizing or complaining at all, and didn't mean it to sound that way, if it did. I DO like the "erector set" Savages, though, they can save some smithing money at times, though they can't be considered anything like perfect, they are fun to tinker with.
I was shooting Winchesters when my buddy traded into a couple of Salvages, and he started cleaning my clock with them, at that. I decided I couldn't stand for that, and got a couple myself. That led to our first PD trip, and so on. We just kept buying the things and for the most part, they shoot pretty well. I haven't had a bad chamber YET, but the two current .223 barrels on my rifles right now aren't as good as the last two and I'm thinking about replacing them with custom pipes (they are just new factory tubes I got fairly cheap).
I'd like a nice custom action some time, but I don't see it happening any time soon. Since I mostly just plink at paper or take a PD trip now and then, it's really not too critical for my needs, anyway. Salvages can sure kill PDs really well.

GA and Red, I was only crushing your grapes. I love to joke and kid around so don't take anything I say seriously. That is why I say take it with a grain of salt. When I decided to build this rifle I heard, " A Savage, what the hell do you want to build a Savage for?". My reply was, because I like them and still do. As I said before I appologise if I was too critical and if you guys are crushing my grapes, touche! I love it! I have a very tough skin and don't take anything seriously except shooting. I try to share my experiences with everyone so it may help them clear up a question in thier mind. I myself have a lot of learning to do and if someone wants some feedback from a project I did I will gladly give them my results. I have built a few rifles and every time I do, I say, why the hell didn't I do this. I am not married nor do I have children so I may have a little more money to throw at a project. I wish I had a video of that stock Savage barrel in the lathe for you guys to watch because it did look like a banana even though it shoots great. Believe it or not most barrels look like a banana in a lathe, just not this bad. Here is a pic of the fired case from the stock barrel before rechambering.
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PS. Please don't take anything I say seriously and have a wonderful day! I am heading out to get that 539 yard chuck. Your pain in the a$$, Chuckbuster. (AL)

I guess what I was trying to say is, in my honest opinion, you would be better off buying a used Remington 40X for about the same or less money and be better off. That's all folks. AL

Ditto.

Keep us updated on the 539 yarder!!

Hi Red, the 539yd chuck moved to 367yds for some reason. It was an unsuccessful move.
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SHAZBOT!!!!!

Is that one in the RUINT thread.......It should be

That one is certifiably, RUINT!!!

Good Shootin'

Bob

Man....not much left to make slippers out of.

True enough, but what is left would be nice and warm...
for a little while !!

You first

You guys are bunch of silly kids! I love it! Hey Chuckbuster I really like reading about your experience and criticisms with Savages or anything else. So please keep writing, it doesn't offend at all. I'm getting very interested in the gunsmithing aspect of our sport. Are you self taught or did you have formal instruction? I'm watching local classifieds for metal lathes now. I know that this is a big move and a new can of worms, but my thirst won't be quenched until I get one!

LMAO! I'm glad you are enjoying it, I guess that's why we (the silly kids) are all here. I am not a smitty nor am I a machinist. I took machining in school and that's about it. I have a couple of buddies that are smittys and they are the ones that do my machining and teach me. Most of my machine work is done after work with a couple of beers which I don't condone. I do know how to do most of the machine work for the most part but I can't afford a lathe and a milling machine when I keep building rifles. My neighbor has a Bridgeport in his garage that is very convenient but I need to buy an index for it. I do all the non machine work as far as shaping, finishing and fitting the stocks, bedding, lug lapping, barrel lapping, triggers and so forth. I have been shooting for about 40 years and reloading for about 35. I shoot alot of disciplines from steel challenge to benchrest. I am a target shooter and not much of a hunter because I am crippled, my knees are gone. Someday I will get new ones. My father always told me to work hard and I will make something out of myself and I did, I made a cripple out of myself . I am a NRA certified instructor and spend time teaching people how to shoot and reload safely and accurately. I shoot woodchucks because I had a big vegetable garden when I was younger and they always managed to destroy it every year, thats where the battle began. I also shoot them because I don't have to walk far and I consider them great targets and a nuisance to all farmers. I find woodchucks to be great targets because they are always at different ranges and wind conditions, you usually only have one chance to get it right so you better have it together. I use Nightforce optics because I find that the repeatability of them is phenominal, you can turn the turrets up and down all day long and when you go back to zero it is right there. No other scope I own is that precise and I have alot of them. The only problem is they are expensive as a bastard but worth it.
Probably the single most important thing I have done to my rifles is have flats milled on the ends of the barrels so you can use a box end wrench or a socket to remove or change it. This was the idea of Larry Racine. This allows you to change barrels on the range with a simple wrench instead of mounting a barrel vise to your truck and buying action wrenches. When changing from one barrel to another the most I ever had to move the scope is 3 minutes and usually it is only 1-2 minutes because everything is square. You don't have to remove the action or the scope so changing calibers takes only seconds. I can swap barrels and be shooting again within 1 minute. This saves a ton of money because when you want another caliber you just buy a barrel instead of another rifle. The swap barrel project turned out so well that Larry now offers it as a service and he can be found here http://www.lprgunsmith.com/lpr_switch_rifle.htm. If you have any questions feel free to ask and I will do my best to give you an honest and informative answer poviding I have had previous experience with the subject. Have a great day and enjoy! AL



I will build another rifle this winter if everything goes well and I don't loose my job because of the economy.
It will probably be a BAT action, it will be a Krieger barrel, it will have Badger rings and base, it will have a Nightforce scope, it will have a Jewel trigger. I have 2 calibers in mind at different ends of the spectrum, either a 6 Dasher or a 338 Edge. I will take pics along the way and post if you guys are interested. My tip for today is when checking headspace put a piece of tape on the back of a GO guage and the bolt should not close.

Here is a vid I found with Nightforce and the Edge, I hope you enjoy it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VX4aqmbaGIo