Been thinking on a 10-22 to 10-17 MachII conversion, mainly for a hobby project during the cold months. There are many different manufacturers and options for this conversion. Initially I was thinking a Clark barrel and any old brand of weighted bolt handle. Then thought that maybe Eabco was the way to go. Now I'm second guessing that. The more I read on the subject (RFC) the more differing opinions I get. Some guys go trouble free with a certain set-up while others experience split cases etc. Apparently the trigger set-up that is used can even be a problem if the hammer spring is too stiff or too weak.

I know Eric built one, has anybody else here put one of these together and have an experience, good or bad they can pass on? Is this going to be an inherently problematic rifle?

A friend of mine has done several 10/17s, in HMR and M2, and is working on a Charger in M2, I don't think it's running yet. Sending you his email in a PM.

Red,
I converted my 10/22 to a 17m2 a few years ago. I used all Volquartsen parts for the build.
I have not had any problems at all with the gun. No misfires or fail to feed problems at all. And it is a real tack driver too.

Drumie

That sounds promising Drumie. Looks like Clark still offers their HM2 barrel and charging handle, but they no longer have their own custom rifle available in that caliber...makes me wonder if there simply wasn't enough interest in it or if they had troubles?


Got your PM Glenn, thanks

Mike,
Never had a 10-anything, but can say that the 17Mach2 is a cartridge that performs way out of proportion to its size. If a self-loader can be made to shoot them,
SHAZBOT!!
that would be sexier than sox on a rooster

BTW,
Merry CHRISTmas

Bob

Merry Christmas to you too Bob.

you know, a couple times I've thought maybe selling that CZ was a mistake, but I'd prefer the semi-auto. I don't know if I can get an auto to shoot as good? and if it does....it can't be done as cheaply as just buying another CZ. If I got another CZ though, I'd have nothing to fiddle with and that's really what it's about as I don't need another squirrel gun.

I hope that one is still pulling it's weight for you.

BTW, Dean's 77/17 MachII is now a 22magnum. He had me convert it as I had all the parts just gathering dust here.

Red,
I have built two of the 10-17's using E-abco kits. One has the heavy barrel the other has the factory weight barrel. I had some trouble with the trigger on one, It did not take long to fix it and it has worked very well. The other gun worked right the first time. I was suprised to find that the light weight barrel grouped it's shots better than the heavy one. Also, it is the best gun for tree rats. By the way mine were winter projects also.

Cool, that's good to know. Thanks for the input TJD.

I'm on the hunt for the RIGHT 10-22. Apparently all the newer ones have a funky textured finish that I'm not fond of. I've scoured all the local places and have not found a used piece. A gun show will be in town on 1-10-09...I'll be there.

Interestingly, a few months back I bought a real nice barely used DSP as a gift for a friend at a local place. At that time they had several used 10-22's on hand, that DSP was what I would have chosen for myself so I got it for him. Now, I can't even find a single one.

Red, I would suggest Rimfire Technologies conversion with a volquartsen barrel. I was having problems with conversions until I went with his progressive rate bolt handle, the thing is sweet, got rid of all it's problems, was a lot cheaper than going with the VQ bolt conversion.
Unfortunately R/T does not make a HM2 barrel, yet, but Greg has put some amazing groups up with the VQ barrels.
All you need for the conversion is a barrel, bolt handle, and a bolt buffer, R/T and VQ are the only companies that make a BB specifically for the 17, a standard poly buffer should not be used as they can cause bad rebound.

http://www.rimfiretechnologies.com/Product...ductCode=MCH001
http://www.rimfiretechnologies.com/Product...uctCode=BWBB003
http://www.gunkings.com/index.php?main_pag...products_id=490

I will not say that these are plug and play, sometimes they just need some tinkering, but the BIGGEST issue is the pressure curve of the 17 causing everything to work under more stress and speed. R/T has done some amazing things with his bolt handle. The only way to guarantee no problems is with a bolt rifle.

And I still have the 77, shooting like a dream.

More great info

Glad to hear the 77/22 is safe and sound. Lot's of history with that one and I kinda miss it. But, I couldn't be much happier with it's replacement. It's been making some memories of it's own.

I found a NIB 10-22 DSP with the old style finish and steel trigger componants. It must have been collecting dust there for a while. It also has better than average wood for a stinkin Ruger. I snapped it up

Congrats on the find. I guess it's on now.

It is.

I'm looking forward to it. I love fiddling with stuff. The 10-22 might be the optimum platform for a guy that likes to tinker.

Les Smaller?

@ ^^^^^!!

Who? What?



Red was taken

I designed and built a drop in (no mungus bolt handle) unit for converting the 10/22 to a 17M2. I dropped the idea of marketing it because I figured the M2 was slowly becoming a dead issue.~AMMOe

it may be? There are so many manufacturers for conversion parts out there, the market is flooded anyway. The fact that many gun makers are no longer even chambering guns for the M2 is another concern. Only the mentally ill would even consider a conversion But I think the ammo makers will continue to produce M2, at least for quite a while.

Whittaker's has a CASE of Sako Quads in .17HM2 for the low, low price of $450 each , if the autoloading hoodoo don't work right. They've got all the Quads on sale, single caliber/synthetic stocks, for $450, they'd sold about a half case of HMRs, the others weren't moving as much.
I got interested and asked some guys who have 'em. To a man, they all say they shoot really well, and the triggers are the same triggers in Tikkas and Sako 591s and 691s, adjustable and pretty good without monkeying around. If you DO want to monkey around, changing out a spring can get it down to 7 ounces

If you want interchangeability, also, you can get Sako or Lilja barrels in the different rimfire chamberings (no word on the 5mm, though), and change them out yourself, no hardships except the coinage........................ Only the magazines are different, apparently.
Of course, the Quads are boltguns, and the synthetic stocks make you look at Savage fondly, but they shoot...............................

You make a strong case Glenn. Doesn't sound like there'd be anything to FIDDLE with though I had a good shooting CZ M2, Skypilot has it now.

My local Trading Post will sell any M2 for $25 over cost, and that includes T/C's and CZ's. That is why I didn't pursue the conversion. The only selling point on mine is that it is invisible: a clean drop in that requires no tuning. I shelved it last year when the sales figures on M2's started to reflect a cooling of the market. I may build the final variant for myself, though.~AMMOe

I took the trigger assembly apart and cleaned the hammer up a bit. I think with some more work I could make it somewhat acceptable but....I've contacted a private individual on another site and for $40 shipped he has a set that includes a PC hammer, hammer spring, and shims~bolt buffer~auto bolt release~extended mag release, seems like a deal considering I wanted these parts anyway. The trigger is awefully creepy though. At some point an adj. sear could take care of that I suppose.

EDIT; went another route with Rimfire Technologies. Ordered his Adj. Sear & Hammer, bolt buffer, and auto release. I'm like a kid in a candy store is it here yet? is it here yet? is it here yet?


Yesterday I fired the gun with the 22lr barrel just for a function test and had no failures.

Hey Red, any updates on the 10/17? or is it still a 10/22? I've read your other posts and cann't wait to see you next one on this project

Just waitin on the mailman to bring parts.....

Some parts showed up. The 77/22 to 10/22 barrel swap kit, the SS hex take down screw, and the new charging handle.

The barrel swap kit includes just two pieces, the barrel spacer, a little wedge and no directions. It seems pretty simple right? but the V block will NOT fit since the milled out "flat" portion of the 77 barrel is simply not quite milled far enough up the barrel for this to just "drop in". The V block needed to have a bevel ground on one edge to allow clearance. No big deal, but I thought at first I was either too dumb to do the job, or I was missing some critical component. Directions should be included IMO. My son's 77/17 barrel was put in place for the time being.



I added a SS Allen head take down screw. It goes against the very fibre of my being to pay $9 for a friggin screw, but, I couldn't find one locally and I don't have a #12-24 die. It's a screw that will get a lot of turning so there it is.



The Charging Handle was a snap and I added a Black Widow bolt buffer.



I ran a few rounds of Eley through it in the garage to check for function. 100% All systems are go! Still waiting on the backordered hammer to install the rest of the trigger parts all at once. I also JB'd the heck out of the factory 17 barrel. I doubt that will improve the accuracy above what it had exhibited when it was on the 77, figured it couldn't hurt.

Put me down as too dumb. No way I would have figured out how to make that fit without instructions.

Looks nice.

Again today at the 30 yard indoor range with parallax set at 50 yards and the crappy trigger;

Eley Mach II ammo exhibited the better groups .405" & .390" No failures to function although two Eley cases had a noticeable buldge on the primer end (bottom) of the case. CCI ammo didn't shoot as well and I found two split CCI cases.

I'm a little concerned....

EDIT:

While it seems split necks or bulged cases are not uncommon with the 17M2, they are more common with the 10-17 than with bolt guns. Although, some bolt guns exhibit this as well. Apparently there was a bad run of M2 brass from CCI a coupla years ago. My CCI stuff might fall into that lot, it's been here for a while. I never saw it with either of our bolt guns, but then, I don't recall ever inspecting it either.

Greg at R/T says the hammer is still two weeks out

I had contimplated buying all the trigger group parts like you did Red for my 10/22 winter project gun. Decided since I could always just pitch them if I screwed it up I'd make a DIY project out of the trigger group. Stripped it all down and polished all the contact parts (used instructions I took from RFC), did the JB weld trick to the sear engagement and put it all back together. My trigger project gave me a clean breaking 2.7 lb. trigger with no creep and minimal after travel. I also passed on the $9 screw at least for now, figured my kids might want shoes and food first.

Couple of things I found with some of the aftermarket 10/22 parts. Just my opinion after years of buying parts for all kinds of other guns.

Every auto bolt release I seen that was after market is a stamped steel part with very rough and sharp edge on one side.....no clue why they can't be finished nicer. Mine would not function without polishing the rough side.

I've tried three different extended mag releases all of which made changing the magazine more difficult and not less than the original.

I bought the Volquartsen bolt/guide rod/spring. It was not a drop in fit. The top side of the handle where it bridges over the firing pin on the bolt rubbed badly against the inside on the reciever. Required slight grinding and polishing to fit and slide correctly.

I appreciate your passing that info on. I commend you the trigger job. It sounds like you did everything right and it's more complicated than bolt gun triggers. I usually have the same outlook as far as the how bad can I screw it up if I'm replacing it anyway? might as well tinker with it first mentality. For whatever reason I decided to go with the parts right off this time, I'm having second thoughts now that I'm forced to wait on them.

at that expensive screw. But it'll be handy. I'm trying to forget about it, let us speak of it no more

I have not ordered an extended mag release, and may not. The 10-22 magazine seems a little more fiddly to get out than my 77/22, but maybe it just needs more use. I never felt the need for one on the 77.

On the R/T auto bolt release, they are cut out by water jet, not stamped. With his he actually extended the release button so it is easier to reach. I myself love to tinker and have the same mentality, I can buy parts later.
I know what you mean about the hammer, I can't get one and I know Greg. I do know he just got the new shipment in and so his back order will be dropping.

I have been using the HM2 conversion for a long time, for some reason almost all of my spent cases are bulged, I have no idea why, it does not effect the shooting, I know many other people who have the exact same kit as me and not a single problem. I believe most of the issues come with the basic inconsistencies of the Ruger machining. I plan to alleviate that this year by going with a NoDak spud receiver. But I am now using a brand new Ruger receiver and I will see if that changes anything.

One thing I have learned, keep the bolt face and chamber area clean and dry

That's good to hear. Maybe it'll even be here sooner than the two week estimate?

Good info too. Thanks.

My auto bolt release came from RT and to be honest was crude and not usable when I took it out of the package. Looked like it was made by a child, in a cave, in a third world country using a rock and a nail file. Regardless of the process used to make it. I ended up using the original with basic mods to get exactly the same effect. Should have saved the 9 bucks, could of bought the overpriced screw instead.

LOL!

I had to get mine out of the unopened package to take a better look after reading that. Actually mine looks good. While it's not exactly smooth as a baby's butt, it has no rough edges either and I see no signs of it being stamped. It looks much better than the one I got for my 10-22magnum a year or so ago. I don't recall where that one came from? It did not come from R/T I'm sure of that. Maybe from that cave

oooh, the remark about that screw hurt

BTB, I ran some 17Aguila thru mine today. Even with the new heavier charging handle, it functions with that too. So, swapping the barrel back to .22LR would probably not require swapping the charging handle back again.

Ok Red you have inspired me to go in search of a donor 10/22 action just to find out for myself. So I will need your definitive answer about what exactly you HAVE to change in order to have a trouble free and safe conversion from 22 lr to 17m2.

All I've done was add the R/T charging handle (which comes with a rod and spring) and a bolt buffer. I doubt I'll even get the "absolutely must have" Volquartsen extractor, unless I experience some malfunction in the future.

If you can find a take off 77/17M2 barrel as I'm "borrowing", R/T's conversion kit allows it to be attached to the 10-22 for about $22 or so. The one I have on mine is just so-so as far as accuracy, but there are guys that can tweak some pretty impressive results out of those factory barrels for $100 or less. Or, a barrel sleeve could be installed in the .22 barrel. I have not heard anything on them as far as accuracy goes.

Eabco offers a package 10-17 barrel and charging handle conversion that most guys seem to be happy with. I personally did not want a .920" barrel. Clark offers a similar package, and they offer both a mid-weight or a .920" barrel. Shilen offers no charging handle, but they have three contours of 17m2 barrels to choose from. Green Mountain has sporter weight or .920" barrels available.

I just sold a scope, so I will have some additional funds for a custom barrel and/or a scope upgrade. I want both. By getting the Clark mid-weight 77/17 barrel, I figure if I'm dissapointed with accuracy from the converted rifle, the barrel could be used on one of our 77/22's, and I like the weight and balance of the mid-weight vs. the .920" barrels for carrying. Just my personal preference

Red, how long of a barrel is the GM?

They offer both 16.5" and 20" I believe.

Clark's standard length is 21.5" You can order longer if you like (more$), or they can be shortened for no additional charge. I'm leaning toward a 20". Was going to order today, they were closed. It's OK that gives me until Monday to decide for sure.

I spoke to Greg today, R/T, I was asking about a longer barrel in the conversion since I was wanting to use the factory 77/hm2 barrel. He said anything over 19 inches will have to be ported at 14 inches to reduce the pressure curve. In testing they have not been able to go over 19 inches safely and have it cycle. So you might want to either consider a shorter barrel or having the clark ported. I plan on doing this AFTER I test the long barrel to make sure it won't work.

I just thought you might want to know before you paid good money and have it cause problems. Not to say it will happen, but it might. Greg also said porting it will probably make it more accurate. Forgot to ask why because all this is beyond me when they start getting technical.

19" is do-able. Thanks for the info.

I'd opt for a shorter barrel vs. porting, JMO because of the noise factor. And the factory barrel could be shortened fairly cheaply if need be. My 20" factory has been cycling fine, there were those two buldged cases though.

To be clear, the GM barrels are 77/17 barrels, not 10/17.

I wonder if they've tested any 19"+ barrels that have been treated with moly fusion. Some guys swear by the moly fusion for the m2, maybe that's why?

Mugwamp,

I just got off the phone with Clark. Was ordering the 19" blue and began asking questions. They told me they no longer even offer a 10-17m2 barrel and were concerned about selling me a 77 barrel to use on a 10-22. He said they had too many problems with the m2 on the 10-22, split cases (although he admitted there was a bunch of bad brass at one point) and accuracy issues. They could not offer their 1" @ 100 yds guarantee because of occasional flyers with the 10-17 barrel so they just dropped it. Too much trouble he said. On the other hand they get excellent results with the m2 on the 77 platform (in some cases outshooting the 77/22lr) and offer the guarantee with a .22lr in either the 10-22 or 77-22.

Right now it's in limbo, I could get the barrel and see what happens, then always swap it to one of the 77's but I really don't want to do that. I've contacted a guy about possibly working some of his voodoo magic on the factory barrel to improve accuracy.

I actually thought about having my 77/17hm2 relined to a better quality liner, we all know how "in spec" ruger keeps their barrel. I know moly lubing is helping a lot with the barrels. not hard to do, you just need a day and easy access to a shooting range.

Volquartsen, Magnum Research, GM, Shillen, Lilja (have not heard much good about the lilja RF barrels), all make the HM2 barrels. Plus a few others.

They will sell me one, but now I'm starting to second guess my decision and more seriously considering having the factory barrel worked over. $105 for hand lapped, re chamber, re crown. It would not be the .720" midweight contour I was wanting, but I know this one works at least.

MW, I'm not sure if we're talking about the same moly treatment. Greg at R/T has said positive things on it as far as the M2 is concerned. "I use Moly Fusion on ALL of my semi-auto rimfire rifles, ESPECIALLY HM2 10/22 conversions."
Here's a link;

http://www.shootersolutions.com/mfdiykits.html


gambled and ordered the Clark this afternoon.

You can also look at Green Mountain Barrels Internet specials as the 96/22 barrel will slip on a 10/22 fine and a 17" HM2 sporter barrel is only $65 and $75 for a 16.5" fluted sporter. all you need is the handle and you can pick them up for about $55.

WBH

I saw a couple good comments on those particular barrels as far as accuracy. It's a pretty cost effective way to go.

I ordered some of the Moly Fusion stuff today. I'll be curious to see if it's really all that spectacular. It might make the difference in eliminating buldged case heads in the longer barrels?

A brass pillar was fabricated and JB welded into place. The glass bed work on the receiver end and trigger group area is done. I just need the new barrel and that ever elusive "precision hammer"

update;

the hammer showed up and after several attempts, it's working as desired. The adjustable sear needed some stoning to allow it to clear the safety and allow the bolt to function in both "safe" and "off safe" positions. In the end the trigger is pretty darn nice. I snapped the head off that friggin $9 action screw Mailed it back to R/T....haven't heard from them.

The barrel and moly fusion treatment are still out there somewhere. Any day now.

Having to stone the safety is common with all of the aftermarket hammers. Long live Ruger machining.

The takedown screw is set to be broken at about 20 ft pounds. The maximum torque that a 10/22 needs is between 20 and 30 inch pounds. Just barely a tweak. Using an allen wrench puts a lot of different torque on the bolt, very easy to make it tighter without trying. If it was not set up to snap it would keep going and strip out your threads on the aluminum receiver and cost you a bunch of money for a helicoil.

yeah except this one snapped with a screwdriver just as it was beginning to snug (no wrench) I'm guessing maybe 5 inch lbs tops. On inspection there was very little metal holding the screw to the screw head. It was practically cut through when the screw was made. Probably just a dud. If there was only one in the whole batch, I got it.

I figured it was something like that. Didn't think you would tighten it that much. Machinist must have hurried that one along. I hope the whole batch isn't like that.