I recently started shooting 22 rimfire silhouette and am having a great time. But sighting in my rifle (Kleingunther K-22) I started getting some unexplained fliers. I was told that rim thickness could be the problem.

Have any of you ever checked the rim thickness of your ammo? Did doing so help the accuracy? Is it worht the time to do so?

Thanks in advance...............Bob

Great Sport! I shot my way into Triple A without sorting rim thickness. What is the barrel length of your rifle?? ~AMMOe

Barrel length is 21.5". I've been using CCI standard vel. ammo, stock number 50035. I understand this ammo is what they send overseas. A store in my area is able to get it and the guys at our sportsmans club swear by it. They use it for silhoette, indoor rifle and pistol and even hunting.

To what degree does the flier open the group, and how many of them do you get from a string of five. Are they always in the same place (the fliers) or do they move around? Have you tried any other ammo? ~AMMOe

I would give some laupa midas a try (if you can get them over there) I have found them a very reliable bullet in my anchuntz match 54 .22 prone rifle and in my sako finfire, come to think of it laupa ammo is always excellent. I have tried cci ammo and was never fussed on it and felt the same about eley ammo but once I tried laupa the groups became far more consistant and reliable. Also I have never checked rim thickness and am a bit unsure if it would make a big difference but if youre stuck its worth a try I suppose but i would take a closer look at other ammo before starting to sort them.

The fliers might go high right then low left. Might go low at 6 o'clock then 12 o'clock. Sometimes groups are nice and tight (by tight I mean under 1 inch) then I'll have 2 fliers on the next group that go 2 to almost 3 inches out. All are 5 shot groups at 100 meters.
I've tried some other ammo including Wolf MT. The wolf did shoot better than the CCI and with very, very few fliers. I think thay might have been my fault.
My K-22 is free floated and piller bedded. I may not have the action screws torgued right. Started at 30 in lbs, then to 35 and up to 40, shooting groups at each setting. Groups improve the tighter the screws got. Could that be the problem?
I would like to try the Lapua ammo but at 10 times the cost of CCI and 5 times the cost of Wolf MT, I think I'll pass on them. They're out of my bugget.

Once your sure you have any questions about the rifle and scope addressed, I'd be experimenting with different types of ammo. Just because a particular ammo shoots good in someone elses rifle doesn't mean it'll shoot good in yours.

My Anschutz shoots Wolf MT very well, my Ruger does not. The Ruger shoots Eley subsonics real well, the Anschutz will not.

Are you using wind flags?

That was my next point: Wind and weather. One hundred yards is not the place to test RF ammo. I would set up at my pig zero (60M) and test there. Wind effect and thermal effect will me less. ~AMMOe

No, we haven't been using wind flags. Just kind of watch the high grass at the sides of the backstops. Generally at 40, 60 and 77 meters my groups are pretty good. It's at 100 that I start having trouble. I guess it could be the wind. We always have a breeze blowing up there.

I guess I'll sight in at the closer ranges. Also try some different ammo.

Thanks all...Bob

Having built several Ruger 10-22s. I think that there is a connection between the bolt head space and rim thickness. Hint the cheaper the ammo the more this shows up. I still find it strange how much difference there is in the head spacing of even new guns. After I started squareing the bolt faces and setting the head space to a standard size this became a non-issue. I talking about semi-autos only I don't do this to bolt actions guns. Remember kids don't do this at home.

With non-match (Cheap) ammo I find that the average weight of the rounds is very important.
Sorting ammo by weight will reduce fliers. I have played with both rim thickness and weight and find that culling by weight has more effect. I have a tricked out 10-22 that shoots tiny groups with Remington Thunderbolts after they have been sorted by weight. I find 40% of this brand must be culled. My answer to my problem, stand at the scale or buy better ammo.

TJD,

Not knocking your work, but if culling 40% of the ammo provides better ammo, wouldn't it be better to just spend 40% more on ammo and save your time for more important things...like shooting?

If you enjoy the time spent, then I guess my comment is illogical, and please disregard.

For me, with work, wife, and house commitments; I'd rather just buy better ammo and be done with it... YMMV...

Hey Marine thank you for serving my country. I'm glad to speak to one of American's best.

My gun was the one that prefered that brand of ammo. The kids used the culls to learn to shoot. In those long winter evenings it gave me an excuse to be in the re-loading room.

TJD,

You're very welcome, though the guys over there now are dealing with way more crap than I ever did...

Any excuse to be in the reloading room is a good one!

If anyone is interested, culling CCI Mini Mag HP and Federal Lighting ammo by weight will cull three per hundred.

What are your guidelines for culling by weight?

WTFC,
Sorry to be so long in answering you. I spent part of July in the hospital. If you still want an answer here goes.
Stores in many small midwestern towns don't offer target or special purpose ammo, so culling by weight was my answer to better groups. Over the years some brands have improved their quaility. Two that come to mind are CCI Mini Mag and Federal Lightning. Federal Champion is proving to be as good as Lightning.

I buy at least three or more boxes of ammo of the same lot number. This is a good way to drive a clerk at Wal-Mart nuts.

To weigh 22 ammo, I put five rounds on the scale at once and get the total weight (weighing ten rounds is better if your scale will handle them). Now find the average. Please note this may vary between lots but I still keep records. With this average weight as a starting point, I set the scale and start weighing. After twenty or so rounds you may need to adjust the weight. I am looking for the rounds that fall with in a few tenths of the average weight. You will know when a cull hits the scale.

You can seperate these rounds into as many groups as you wish. Now comes the fun, take the groups to the range and allow your gun to pick the best. By keeping good records you will find how many tenths-of-a-grain can be included in the average. The weights that group the best are marked Match. Second best are used for plinking, while the culls are used by the kids in close range spray and pray.(The culls don't last long.) Once while testing Winchester Super "X" 22 ,a bulk ammo, I could see (thru my 24 power test scope) the culls as they flew toward the target. They all hit low out side the group. Should I call that a flier or a crawler?

The best ammo for my tricked-out 10-22 is Remington Thunderbolt. I once shot a .80 of an inch group at 150yds with this ammo (after it had been culled). By testing, I now know that CCI Mini Mags are almost as good. They will shoot Minute-Of-Pdog. The extra speed and the hollow point are a help also.

When it comes to showing off at the range, guess what I shoot? I enjoy re-loading for the centerfires as much as shooting. So, I spend some time loading for my 22's. When we are target shooting our 22's at long range, I love the look on a guys face when I set out a box of Remington Thunder Bolt ammo and clean the targets. That look is worth the effort.

There's a good chance you have all heard of this trick before, but in case you haven't, I'll pass it on. To measure rim thickness without spending any money on a special gauge, take 223 or similar case, and measure the length with calipers. Then place a round of 22LR nose first into the case and measure the length again. The difference is the rim thickness.

I did this once on a box of cheap 22LR and ended up with about five or six different sizes if I recall correctly. The rifle (CZ 452 American) might have had a small preference, but I didn't think it was worth the effort and haven't done it since.

While weight fluctuation and rim thickness plays a role in accuracy I find that the wind when shooting 100 yards with a .22LR can have a great deal of influence on your shot placement especially with lower powered target loads.

We have seen and been told that each 22 rifle will prefer one brand of ammo over others. I fully agree. But, I want to make one observation. Headspace and rimthickness are the two sides of a coin.

I think a lot of that comes about because of different size headspaceing on the bolts. When I build tricked-out 10-22s I square the bolt face and set the head space. New Ruger 10-22s can have a head space beyween .040 to over .054. Most are in the high 40s or low 50s. One was even larger. Following this opperation I would test the gun to see what brand ammo it prefered. When the head space was set around .043 or .044 the guns were shooting best with CCI Mini Mags and Federal Lightling. My opinion only. Kids don't try this at home.

[quote name='TJD' date='Oct 9 2008, 06:57 AM' post='113304']
WTFC,
Sorry to be so long in answering you. I spent part of July in the hospital. If you still want an answer here goes.

TJD,
I hope you are doing well now. Thank you for the reply, it was very informative. I'm mainly interested in .22 target pistol shooting indoors at 50 feet. I'll have to give this a try since I sometimes have some wild flyers that I can't explain. I'm shooting a Ruger Mk II, with a 5 1/2" bull barrel, Volquartsen compensator, Volq. mag release, Volq. extended slide release, Clark trigger, Ultra-Dot red dot sight and Randall Fung grip.

Thank you, I am improving.

I haven't weighed a lot of target ammo. I would hope they all weigh alike. The companys charge more money for them for some reason. On the other hand they are made on machines. Don't forget to try other types of ammo. You never know about what a gun likes. A friend owns a cheap 22 that has been used hard. He keeps it behind the seat of his farm truck. It will shoot CCI "STINGERS" as if they were target ammo.
How about a report after you try them?
TJD